BILL HAGMAIER’S JANUARY 21, 1989 INTERVIEW WITH TED BUNDY

 

Hagmaier with Ted Bundy


Summarization

Hagmaier:

We're here at Florida State Prison at Raiford, Florida, with Mr. Ted Bundy. We're having a meeting and presently it's two days prior to his scheduled execution date and he's consented to share some of his ideas and experiences with us for the purpose of giving law enforcement a better understanding of people we may encounter in the future who have been involved in activities that are similar to Mr. Bundy at an earlier age.

It's late at night. Mr. Bundy's been spending the whole day attempting to help authorities in other states resolve unsolved homicides as far back as fourteen years.

Ted, I want to let you kind of call your own shots here

Bundy:

Olay

Hagmaier:

- by way of background of your activities as far as homicides beginning in about what time?

Bundy:

1973.

Hagmaier:

And the first one that you recall is ...

Bundy:

In May of '73.

Hagmaier:

That was the one in the Olympia-Tumwater area?

Bundy:

Yes.

Hagmaier:

Just for sake of getting the scope of your involvement and, you're always in  expertise in speaking from you own experiences and obviously those of others who have shared secrets, if I can use that term, with you. You've been involved in - we talked about this a few months earlier - how many homicides?

Bundy:

Well, we went over this a little bit earlier and, uh, oh, we came up with thirty, I mean if we added that little -  it's late at night like you said, but I think that's a fairly close figure.

Hagmaier:

Okay. Without tying to pick your brain too much under the duress that you've been and you obvious circumstances and the late hour would you just try to summarize what states they were in and what periods of time before we can move into more academic things.

Bundy:

Well, I just really would summarize it, uh, California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Florida between 1973 and 1978.

Hagmaier:

Okay.

Specific Cases

Hagmaier:

Ted's been kind enough to spend the last couple days and, perhaps, the next two, which he is aware may be the last two that he will spend on this earth and he’s determined to designate a majority of that time assisting local law enforcement in resolving cases that he's been involved with.

He's been doing it for the purposes of trying to resolve some of the trauma for the victims' families and, also, to assist local authorities in actually understanding of the scope of his involvement because there have been a number of cases which he has been credited with when it's become quite obvious and apparent that he was not responsible for a number of others of others that he's been suspected of. I think what I'll do is just let Ted talk a little bit. I know he's tired - and perhaps we'll have an opportunity to do this in the future - about his feelings about what he's been involved in, that which was important to him in molding his behavior, and whatever else he might share with us this evening.

Bundy:

Yeah, thank you, Bill I don't know - it's, uh,  hard to know where to begin. We were - uh, uh, I wanted for a long time to be able to be in a position, Bill, where I could be absolutely - um - in a position to apply the facts of cases to the rather abstract conversations that we've had sometime to give some meaning to them. For instance today I thought it was - and yesterday when we talked with [redacted] about the Georgann Hawkins case and today when we talked with [redacted] and [redacted]

[Interruption]

Sure.

Hagmaier:

Could you just continue.

Bundy:

about the Julie Cunningham case I think that there were things that came out that, uh,  I could see had application to things other than the simple solution of these cases, application to, uh, the - to other cases solved and unsolved, whether they were attributed to me or to someone else. Uh, I could tell that the, uh, the officer that was questioning me in the Cunningham case, uh, was laboring over ...

[Sound of camera shutter]

No flash? That's a ...

Hagmaier:

Yeah I can't ...

[Unintelligible]

Bundy:

No, oh

Hagmaier:

I think that's it.

[Sound of camera shutter]

You want to stop?

Bundy:

No, it doesn't make any difference I just thought there was supposed to be one

Hagmaier:

There will be.

Bundy:

[Laughs]

Hagmaier:

Go ahead

Bundy:

Uh

[Sound of camera shutter]

Hagmaier:

That's fine.

[Sounds of camera shutter]

Bundy:

Hey, do you remember that part, Bill, I don't know if you picked up on this or not, when - I can't remember his last name. It's a Scandinavian name -

Hagmaier/Bundy:

[Unintelligible]

Bundy:

Oh I see oh, okay

[Unintelligible]

Hose or anything?

[Unintelligible]

[Pause]

[Sighs]

No, we're talking about - I was talking about the, uh - today's session with the Colorado authorities in the Cunningham case and, uh, one of the investigators questioned me, uh, asking questions like veracity or just trying to learn more or both but he didn't understand why - it occurred to him that in the past I had been leave believed to be, uh, someone who left victims lying on the ground and did not bury them and why would I come back later. Remember that? 

Hagmaier:

Yes I do

Bundy:

And  then you saw there's some kind of inconsistency which seemed to him to be a, uh, to subtract maybe from credibility of the story - is that your impression? It seems he was having a hard time

[Unintelligible]

Hagmaier:

He was He was. I think part of that was that he had preconceived ideas as a lot of us in law enforcement do when we think we've got a signature series of murders and we assume someone's going to act the same way every time, but of the thirty that you were involved in do you have an idea how many were actually buried?

Bundy:

Oh. that's a big question. I mean this a whole new set of - uh, gee - ten.

Hagmaier:

Ten burials of the thirty?

Bundy:

Roughly. I mean I just ...

Hagmaier:

Okay.

Mutilation

Hagmaier:

Ted, one of the things that came up when, in your efforts to assist the local investigators in resolving some of the homicides, particularly in a couple where they didn't have the bodies, and you've been working diligently using maps and recollection as to where they can find them, um, you shared with us that in a couple of the cases - I'm not sure how many - but you opted to sever the heads from the victims and how many were there, do you recall, of the thirty?

Bundy:

Oh it's

Hagmaier:

I realize it’s a difficult question, because you’re a different person now than you were then, but to search back and…

 Bundy:

Perhaps, half a dozen.

 Hagmaier:

So approximately twelve [sic] of the thirty had their heads severed. Were there any other body parts severed?

Bundy:

Oh, you mean generally speaking?

Hagmaier:

Well hands, feet, uh, breasts, uh, sexual organs, uh, any other parts - ears or whatever.

Bundy:

Um,

Hagmaier:

[Whispers] you're mic's over here.

Bundy:

Pardon me?

Hagmaier:

Your microphone's over here.

Bundy:

Oh okay yeah, uh, I think that - I think that a lot of that kind of behavior you're talking about I, uh, was, was, was,  the kind of mutilation you're talking about was something which was rare in my experience for me. It's something that [unintelligible] and a high degree of arousal and almost maybe a frenzied kind of state

Hagmaier:

Was it sexual arousal?

Bundy:

Well

Hagmaier:

Or just general emotional arousal?

Bundy:

Well it’s, it’s how to best summarize it was even under those conditions it was irregular it was something that maybe only happened a couple of times, literally I mean that is the, uh...

But anyway yes, it was something that was accompanied - that involved a high degree of intoxication and - and a lot of anger and frustration building up around a lot of other things, uh, uh, in the weeks preceding that, uh, uh, murder. It, uh,

Hagmaier:

Was the mutilation part of the sexual activity at times?

Bundy:

Again it was extremely rare and it was not - it was not I know it was - some people I've heard it was there signature their signature - but it was not something like that for me. But in those occasions when it occurred, it was - it was almost - outside of those couple of occasions a sort of frenzy, a lashing out. It was a more an attempt to transport, conceal, uh, the remains.

Hagmaier:

I see

Bundy:

...than anything  else.

Hagmaier:

Okay. We're at the - now there were a couple of the victims that, when they were discovered, had bite marks on them. Was that part of the frenzy or was there some conscious effort there to, out of curiosity, to experience the biting of the flesh or just, uh, perhaps, taking, uh, well, some kind of sexual play a bit further than you normally would had you not been drinking or frenzied?

Bundy:

That said, you know, we're so close, Bill, to being able to talk about everything and I can, uh - I know what you're talking about. It's a good question. this is the Chi Omega case. And, uh - let me just ask you off the record here what ...

Hagmaier:

Let me stop the tape first.

Bundy:

Yeah.

[pause]

Let me put it this way. Uh, uh, when I, back in the mid-seventies, um, I never had the, the urge or inclination or the idea to, uh, bite my victims and I, quite frankly, don't know why that would have come about. I know that some people consider that to be something of a strange aberration and, of course what isn't? But, let me - how do these kinds of behaviors kind of appear out of nowhere? I mean it is kind of bizarre for instance if you have a case where there are bite marks and, while you know, because they are a means of identification but, at the time of course, the person would be unsophisticated with those sorts of things, forensics or ontology, wouldn't know that. It's a I thinks it's a form of, uh, uh, aggression obviously but it's a unique form. A lot of people do take it out differently.

[Tape stops]

 

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